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An interview with Brad Pitt
(Handbag.com, 2004)
In the big new summer epic Troy, Brad Pitt stars as the doomed warrior Achilles. Arrogant, rebellious and seemingly invincible, Achilles has allegiance to nothing and no one, save his own glory. His insatiable hunger for eternal renown leads him to attack the gates of Troy under Agamemnon's banner, but love will ultimately decide his fate.
I read somewhere you described this as the role of your career?
I don't think I said that.
But how important was it to you to play this character?
When I first read the thing it seemed too obvious, in a way, in my addled brain, but then I quickly got into it.
Why did you think it was obvious?
I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure what it was. Golden boy, or something.
What do you actually feel about Achilles? What's your take on him?
This may take us a while. There's a real telling line when he says, 'I want what all men want; I just want more.' There's a real restlessness and as I say, an isolation in the guy. Whether he's running from death or trying to find himself in a personal glory, he's at a point where he's had that glory and that hasn't done it for him. The Achilles' heel, to me, is representative of his heart. It wasn't until Priam (Peter O'Toole) knocked some sense into him, with words instead of might, that he was then able to ride out the rest of his life with a personal understanding of the greater humanity and his own inner peace of mind.
How did you research the character of Achilles?
Fortunately, there's so much that can be done on The Iliad. So many people have written about it throughout the ages that I had a great well of information to glean from, and I culled the things that meant the most to me. It really wasn't that difficult. It was a real isolated character who was in search of self, I guess.
Did you read the whole thing or go the Cliff's Notes route?
I actually read the whole thing because I knew this question was coming. No, that's not true. When I started it, though, I really got into it. There's a reason why it's still around. It's one of the great stories in a handful of stories, and you've seen how many films and stories are derivative of it.
What's your Achilles' heel?
I'm not going there. I don't know. It's intimacy for all of us, isn't it, pretty much for nine out of 10 of us here?
Did you see any connection between Achilles' glory and your own glory?
You can make parallels to fame, but it's not near to the extent of the Achilles character. But I could certainly draw on that. And the choice that he's offered in the beginning and always wrestling with is this crisis of conscience with the choice that he's made.
Is this the closest you think you'll come to a real action film?
Actually, no, I'm just finishing up a real action film, a more contemporary action film. Mr & Mrs Smith is more of a comedic action film, and I just started Oceans [Twelve] on Monday.
Mr & Mrs Smith has nothing to do with the Hitchcock film, right?
No, it didn't. And I wasn't aware of that [film]. I had to look it up.
What can you say about the choreography of the fight scenes?
The choreography was fantastic. It was very important that we find a distinct fighting style. This was Simon Crane, our second unit director, who was responsible for all the strategies and the choreography and the dramas of the fights. He comes from Private Ryan. He comes from Braveheart. He's top-notch, but in this one it was real important to develop a distinct style. We've seen so many fights now at this point that he very smartly took it another way, meaning that this time, when things are faster and harder, he took it back and took a more balletic approach. He was very adamant that we do it ourselves and that we learn it. There are not a lot of cuts. You see it's more full-figure. You see the death blows.
Did you come up with that power move?
No, that was all Simon Crane and his boys, Buster Reeves and Dave Leitch and Mark Mottram. There's a whole bevy of these stunt guys. No wires.
You're all buffed up. How hard was it getting in shape?
It's amazing what an impending midlife crisis will do for you, really. It got me motivated. I just turned 40 in December.
How hard was turning 40?
I see it as a real badge of honour. I really kind of enjoyed it. No more excuses, you know? I'm responsible. I can't blame anything on my parents. I'm responsible for my mistakes and my choices.
Can you talk about your training regimen?
It sucked. It was brutal. I started out about six months ahead, going in. I got a guy who knew what he was talking about. It was four meals a day of protein and low carb. It was quitting smoking and it was two, three hours in the gym, getting to a point of absolute discomfort. After three months I finally started to enjoy it. And on top of that we have sword lessons.
And you're still not smoking?
No, I picked it up again. I've actually picked it up, then quit, then picked it up again.
How concerned were you about the dialogue and the dialect?
I was [concerned] because of the classical dialects. We've set more of an English base to them, an English dialect. It's more difficult for people from the south or the Midwest or the hills to adopt an English accent. When America was formed most English ended up in New York or on the east coast, and the Irish and Scottish went down the coast or had to go to the periphery or spread out into the country. They went into the country south and west. So it's very easy for us to do Irish accents. It's very easy for New Yorkers or [people from] the upper east to do English accents and vice versa and it's very difficult for us to cross over for some reason. So, because it's so accepted and everyone's got an ear for it I had to put a lot of work into it. I didn't really find it until the second week. I had to loop some of it.
For all the action in the film, the single best scene is your scene with Peter O'Toole, in which Achilles and Priam just talk. How important a scene was that? And our understanding is that that scene, more than any other, is almost word for word from Homer.
It's pretty close. David Benioff did a great job getting the essence of all the scenes from The Iliad into a 120-page script. That's no small feat. It's pretty much there. Some of it is really buried, but if you really look it's there. This scene, to me, when I read the one – when Priam comes to him and asks him for a favour and Achilles says, 'If I do this for you, you are still my enemy in the morning,' and Priam says, 'You're still my enemy tonight, but even enemies can show respect,' – that floored me. That pretty much tipped it for me. But the scene is very important to the Achilles character because we find him in this, what I call a crisis of conscience with his decision and it's not until Patroclus (Garrett Hedlund) is killed that he wants vengeance.
Me, I just don't like a vengeance story. I think we're far too obsessed with the vengeance story. And this took it a step further, from this scene. So we have Achilles; he's wishing all the Trojans a death, but not [just] a death, an evil death, he says, which is very telling. So I wanted to get to a place and show rage and vengeance as almost a form of insanity, like a crime of passion, and it certainly is as far as Achilles goes, after the event itself. So he's hard on himself. He says, 'OK, this is it. This is who I am. That's it. I'm cutting myself off from everything, from Briseis (Rose Byrne), all of it, and from any kind of chance I had at this something else that I was yearning for.' Priam comes in and in the scene he completely disarms Achilles, but he disarms him not with might as Achilles understands it, but with words, which are, some would say, weapons of peace and in a way what he begins to understand is he sees himself. He sees a reflection of himself.
They form this kinship of suffering. They've both lost someone they love and for the first time he can erase those lines that separate me from you. He can see that we're all after this other thing. Certainly, in The Iliad, this sends him on his course of what remaining life there is. They're both going to die soon, but what remaining life there is, he can live it with a form of honour and acceptance of the greater humanity. So it's a very important scene.
What about working with a legend like Peter O'Toole?
I've had a few highlights in the decade or so I've gotten to do this, but that to me is one that gives me gooseflesh, just to be able to do that [scene] with Peter O'Toole. I love this man very much.
Do you get nervous doing a scene like that with a man like that?
No. I would have when I was younger, but now I'm very aware that my game is going to be better when his game is better or her game is better. It's going to be better. We're going to get somewhere, because we need each other to take it somewhere beyond. I can't do it on my own and he can't do it on his own. Well, he could probably do it on his own. He's been around a lot longer.
With all this work you're doing how are you able to juggle it and your personal life?
I'd been off for two years before [Troy]. I didn't work at all for two years going into this film. So Jen and I got a lot of time together. And we both accept this aspect of our business and we're glad to see each other when we can.
Was it a big disappointment not to work with Darren Aronofsky on The Fountain?
It was. It was a big disappointment. I think that Darren is onto something special. I think he's a unique visionary. Actually, in that two-year period [during which Pitt didn't work], I spent over a year working on that with Darren. The piece was so ambitious and out there that it needed more time to incubate. It needed to answer more issues. There were too many holes in it and at that time this juggernaut was moving forward and money was being spent when it really needed to be done right, because it was so ambitious, and I've read it since. He's now had this time. He's going to be shooting it in the Fall, I believe. I was pained and pleased to see that it's there. He got it.
Had you ever spent so much time in a skirt?
I had never spent so much time in a skirt, and if I had I certainly wouldn't say it here, but they're not bad, they're not bad.
Did you get to keep the wardrobe?
No. I usually don't want to see the wardrobe again.
Are you and David Fincher planning to work together again?
Oh yeah. We've been talking about a couple of things. It's just too early [to discuss it]. We're always talking about a couple of things and we'll definitely do something.
Are you and Jen planning to start a family soon?
Yeah, it's time. It's time.
Do you look forward to fatherhood?
I do. I think I'm finally at a place where I won't mess 'em up too much. I'm ready now.
Anything special planned for the Friends finale night?
Unfortunately, I'll be shooting Oceans Twelve. Jen and the gang are doing a big event [in Los Angeles].
We've heard you were nervous doing your guest spot on the show. True?
I was. I was really nervous. It's a whole different thing. I was completely out of my water. It's a different rhythm. It's a different scenario. It's a completely different scenario.
Would you work with Jen again?
If you look through history at couples who've worked together, the odds aren' t with us. So it'd have to be really hand-picked.
Newman-Woodward certainly did good work.
There's a good one. But I can name more that aren't.
What can you tell us about Ocean's Twelve?
It's really well done. Soderbergh is as bright as they come. It starts out where we left off. We're now on the run. Benedict (Andy Garcia) is onto us. We're on the run and we can't work anywhere because we're too hot. So we go to Europe.
You mentioned, perhaps jokingly, a midlife crisis, but did you indulge in anything for yourself? A sports car?
No, I didn't do anything. We were doing the fights on my birthday. I'd always said I was going to get something like a Rolls, but then I got too into the energy conservation. No, I just came back and had a nice little quiet dinner with my friends and my wife. We had to do it after the fact. It was a nice little dinner at home.
Did you get drunk?
There was wine.
Can you talk about the Trojan Horse? Was that real or CGI?
No, no, no, they built it. It weighed tons. They had to assemble it with cranes. It was a beautiful design. They went with the idea that it was made out of burnt ships and things that had been destroyed in the war. I thought it was really pretty smart.
Did they shoot any footage of its actual construction
Oh no. At that point we'd been through so much of the story. Everyone is aware of the Trojan Horse, so it felt like (snaps his fingers), 'Let's get there.' So we miss that 12-day period where the war stops.
Was there any talk of not having the arrow in the heel?
I still question the end. I'm sure I'll be questioning it for a couple of years. [But] we didn't play the gods as characters in the story. We'd played that [scene] more as reality, and that's the shot that took him down.
When you do nude scenes do you buff up especially for those?
No. I feel really stupid. You've heard stories about [people] working out [before such scenes], but I'd feel stupid. I think you can tell. You can see [someone] has just come out of the gym. They're very vascular and look red.
You mentioned the fame parallels. Do you find the whole fame game silly?
I don't find it silly. But the fame game… I don't know how to answer that. I don't find it silly, certainly. I certainly have been drawn to people or events and learned something about my life from it or emulated something. But it can easily go down the wrong road, when it becomes obsession. I really don't have a great answer for it.
What was the weirdest encounter with a fan?
Well, just when they break in your house. I remember being in Argentina. I was dating Paltrow at the time. We were certainly fading off to sleep and in the room I see this figure come in, and it was a little 14-year-old girl who had climbed over the walls and had broken into the house through an upstairs window.
What are you listening to music-wise these days?
We listen to different things, but me, I've been really into Joe Strummer and The Mescaleros lately. I'm a big Chris Cornell addict, anything he does. I like the Foo Fighters. I just got into Interpol. There's a new band, Franz Ferdinand, and they're pretty fun. They're a fun English band. They're upbeat. And Wilco, I'm still into them.
Who deals better with career anxiety, you or Jen?
We kind of balance each other out, but she probably does it better. We really don't do that badly at that, either one of us.
If you had a superpower, which would you like and why?
I'd like to turn back time if I could. I'd like to re-do a couple of things.
How is Jen dealing with post-Friends life?
She's really sad to see it go, in a way. She knows it's a big change in her life. It's like when you left college; that era is over. She made some really, really wonderful friends and had some times that meant a lot to her, but it's also the excitement of embarking on the next era.
Is Achilles invulnerable except for the heel?
No, we never played that. We never played that. We just thought, 'Well, he's good.' Everyone else was so scarred, so we didn't want to [scar him too]. We took a little licence there.
You joked earlier about wanting to turn back time if you could have a superpower…
I really don't.
So are you completely happy with everything in your life?
No, I'm not completely happy, but I'm also a big believer in that it's the mistakes that define you as much anything. It's there that you get real understanding of yourself. You can't have one without the other.
So how do you look back on an experience like Meet Joe Black?
See, now, at the same time I worked with [Black director] Marty Brest, who, for me personally, had a great impact on my life. I love this man dearly. So, because it didn't necessarily work or be as successful as something like [Troy] will be, I couldn't trade it in. Marty had a huge impact on me. I love Marty very much.
Do you and Jen still play board games?
Yeah, we do. We haven't gotten to play a lot of them. We like backgammon. That's our favourite right now, but it gets a little vicious.
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